I can understand the motivation for engaging in anonymous blog commenting in places like China or Cuba, where taking a public position against a ruling regime carries with it the risk of imprisonment or death. But here in the USA, where most speech is free and protected, people like “riding at 4:20” who post puke-stained comments to insignificant blogs like this one typically do so because they’re self-loathing cowards.
Nick Price, who specializes in “Representing Residential/Commercial Buyers and Sellers with strong emphasis on customer service” and who was a member of RE/MAX International’s 100 % Club 2007, is responsible for the gem’s of Blog Commentary that follow below, which are attributed to “ridin at 4:20™“:
[Comments culled from this post: http://8-plus-2.blogspot.com/2008/12/correction-update.html]
I never would have thought Joe P would be reading my blog
That’s what un-employed people do all day. As for Joe Papp, he is a fucking disgrace to anyone who has ever owned and enjoyed the sport of cycling. I’m not talking about the dopers like Leogrande, Hamilton, DeCanio, etc. I’m talking about the people that keep it pure and honest. The cat 5’s, the weekend warriors, the old-lady you see on the trail riding for fitness and enjoyment.
On another note, If you are going to dope, make it worthwhile and win something big. I’m not talking about 5th place at the local PA BAR race.
I’ve had to compete against Papp many times during the period when he was doping, including a memorable race at Drumore where I thought I was going to have to drive myself to the hospital for dehydration-induced vomiting after chasing him and his doped up team mates around all day. I’ve got plenty of reason to be pissed at the guy (and his retarded teammates) for cheating me out of prize money and results.
We all make mistakes, we all do stupid shit, and we all do things that we later regret.
I think that Joe is doing the right thing by helping to bust other dopers. Are his motivations pure? (For example: is he being compelled to via some deal with WADA? Is this just another outlet for the attention seeking that he’s been guilty of in the past?) I’m not sure. That said, I’m willing to accept what he’s doing at face value, and that his actions are doing something positive. And I think that helping to bust cheaters is a good thing.
Its not healthy to go through life holding grudges.
Know what I’m sayin…?
He is only going after the cheaters “now” because he’s been exposed.
I never competed against the guy so I have no personal value of hate, other than he is a doper and they all should be hated. Admitting their guilt is fine, but keep in mind that a lot of money has been lost in races, sponsorship and rider development because of the actions of people like Papp.
So to forgive guys like this, hell no. To accept the fact that some of them admit their guilt is one thing, but they will never have my respect or blessing.
I dunno man. In the larger scheme of things, bike racing isn’t all that big of a deal.
Which is what makes the fact that poeple cheat at it harder to fathom in the 1st place.
Ponch: thanks for your follow-up.
Burt: you’re golden, like always.
Ridin at 4:20(tm): you’re like the Chris Mayhew of blog comments, except that at least Chris uses his real name when he vomits out an email.
Thanks for the comments Joe. I really take it in stride coming from a cheater. I guess I can throw in liar and fraud to the mix.
You should be proud of yourself for your cycling accomplishments.
ponch, i would never throw a teammate under the blog bus. second, i’m like twice this guy’s size based on his pics. Even when i try to stay out….they just keep pullin’ me back in!!!!
back to session numero dos!!!
thank god there’s no blogs about the concrete crater!!
Ridin at 4:20(tm):
Given your belief that “all [dopers] should be hated,” if you care about clean sport it must drive you insane that I’m one of the only cyclists from the dark side who is actively engaged in developing actionable intelligence on, and testifying against, other drug cheats.
But as for not getting your respect or your blessing…phffft. For a blessing I go to my priest. For respect…well, to begin to earn respect I look to people who don’t hide behind pseudonyms and are smart enough not to putear dopers in one sentence, while sarcastically encouraging them to dope to win big races in another.
Whatever your crusade is these days, that is great. We(clean people) should be so proud that you are on the other side now. And what is the other side?
Oh yeah, people who don’t cheat, lie and steal. You are and always will be a pathetic doper.
When is the book deal happening?
They’re called Narcs. Nobody likes the Narc.
Now go get a day job. Just don’t try to cheat and lie your way to the top when you get there. Have and show respect for your fellow workers. Something you have obviously not been able to show in the past.
4:20: Let me see if I understand the main point of your post:
1. People who have ever lied, cheated or stolen are worthless and should be forever dammed by all.
2. If you were somehow involved in lying, cheating or stealing and want to (later) do something about it, you’re a “Narc” and are also damnable.
Have you ever lied, cheated or stolen anything ever? I hope not, because using the logic you’re applying here, you’re now a fundamentally worthless individual who is incapable of reform.
If you don’t like Joe for whatever reason, that’s certainly your decision. But coming up with silly and illogical reasons to justify calling him names is just dumb.
I never thought I’d see the day that Burt defends a doper.
The terms like “Fucking Doper” and “Dopers Suck” were coined because of people like Joe Papp. Defend him, become his best friend in the world, I do not care. That is your choice Burt.
As for me, I give 0 respect to people who have cheated the system.
Have I ever cheated as an adult? No.
Have I ever cheated as a youth? Yes.
Would I knowingly cheat as a adult for financial or some form of gain? No, as an adult I know the difference from right and wrong. Dopers do not.
Sorry Burt, I will not be agreeing with you on this one. I don’t under stand how you can start a post just the other day calling Leogrande and asshole, yet I’m not allowed to call Joe Papp a Fucking Doper? What’s up with that?
Leogrande is acting like an asshole because of his response to the issue…refusing to admit that he fucked up and blaming the system for “singling him out” rather than addressing his behavior.
Fuentes is acting like an asshole because he has made no attempt to come clean about anything he’s done and continues to lie about the doping he did (i.e., that synthetic steroid was in my asthma inhaler).
Hamilton is an asshole because he refuses to admit what everyone knows: that he cheated. And frankly I think he’s probably still doping.
I’m hardly Joe’s “Best Friend”, and I’m not going to say that you can’t call him a “fucking doper” if you choose. Frankly, I have at least some doubt about his motivations (as noted above). However, I think your failure to acknowledge that now he’s choosing to behave in a fundamentally different manner than the people mentioned above is unfair and intellectually dishonest.
That’s all I’m sayin’…
Now this is good $hit.
Dopers are all cheats, liars, and thieves.
They have literally stolen prize money from some of my best friends.
They should be treated as a guy who takes $100 out of your wallet.
What would you think of that guy?
A matter of integrity.
Know what I’m sprayin’?
However, I think your failure to acknowledge that now he’s choosing to behave in a fundamentally different manner than the people mentioned above is unfair and intellectually dishonest.
Image if Papp never doped? We wouldn’t be having this discussion. As I said before, dopers are an embarassment to anyone who rides a bike. When Joe Papp won a race and beat a bunch of non-doping weekend warrior cat 1-2’s, I wonder if he looked in the mirror the next morning and said, I’m Joe Papp and I’m proud of myself.
Regardless of his actions today, it is his actions along with many others that have caused a lot of good riders to loose their teams and careers. Dopers are single-handedly responsible for the folding of teams and races. Good, upstanding riders have been left out on the street with no team because of these pieces of shit.
For their actions, all dopers are fucking pieces of Shit.
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4:20, its not like you have to tell me this shit.
Here’s another 1st hand Papp story: One time I was in a break with Joe, that spic cheater targliadravvamdmfa, and one of their other juiced up teammates up at an ~90 mile road race in Marysville back in ~2002. Me and Josh Beck had made the break about 1/2 way in, and it was us two against all those fuckers, plus Ramone Benetiz and another dude or two that I don’t remember. With ~15 miles to go, Benetiz had been dropped*, and Joe and his teammates took turns doing flyers and attacking Josh (with me trying help by covering as many moves as I could) until finally one of them (Tardgaeilfaref, I think) got away with some other dude and won. Josh was definitely the strongest non-doped rider in the race, they knew it, and they specifically targeted him until they had worked him over and make him crack. He was so spent from trying to cover that he actually got dropped from the chase group before the end and ended up finishing out of the money. Joe won sprint out of the chase group (for 3rd, I think), with The Dopers winning and taking 3 of the top 5 places.
From a race tactic perspective, it was the perfect thing for Papp and his teammates to do (those guys knew how to race their bikes). In retrospect, however, it was nothing more than a buch of cheaters consipring to beat up on a clean dude who deserved to win the race. I watched first hand as they stole the race from the guy.
Josh Beck is a super nice guy, and as gifted a racer as anyone that I’ve ever had the chance to ride with. He quit road racing, and I’m sure that scenes like that were the reason.
All that said, I still thing its wrong to refuse to allow people who fuck up the opportunity for forgiveness.
* Regarding Ramone that day: This was still back when the guy was a Cat III who refused to upgrade so that he could go out and take money from III/IV riders he was clearly superior to. In his typical style, once the move was clear, he spent alot of time bitching at everyone to take harder pulls, etc. while doing shit like charging up every hill, and basically fucking up the rythem of the group just to show us how strong he though he was. Watching him crack when the real shit started going down was particularly satisfying.
What you described above is what makes Papp even more pathetic as a doper. It is one thing when Tyler beat a bunch of other dopers. It is another thing to show up at a PA race and beat up on a bunch of guys who are going to finish the race and within a few hours will be at home cutting their lawn or taking their kids to swim practice the next morning. That is really sad that someone would have to dope at that level.
When a guy like Vino attacks in the Alps and beats Rassmussen, it’s one doper vs. another.
Joe Papp attacking Josh Beck or you and needing to dope to do it is kinda funny, in some ways. Funny that someone would be so insecure of his own natural ability and would need to cheat to win, especially at such a level. Lets face it, they go were they can hide. It’s not like Ruoff is going to test Joe or his band of dopers after the race.
As for Joe coming on this blog and trying to argue and/or defend his position is even more pathetic. Can you read the heading Joe? 8 plus 2. This blog is about a guy who works all day and tries to balance a racing career along with trying to get ahead(without cheating) at work and on Saturday and Sunday when he is a weekend warrior. These are the exact people that you’ve cheated.
Perhaps if Joe Papp raced against other “out-right” dopers at a Euro-Pro level perhaps he could be forgiven quicker, but considering he needed to dope for local shit against non-dopers is sad.
So Joe, was it worth it getting that $300 check for that big win at Drumore or Blue Bell, or whatever you won locally? Tyler is laughing at you pal. At least he got the big paychecks.
My challenge to Papp is this. Go get a day job, work from 8-5 and try to balance your training schedule while working 40 hrs a week. See what it’s like to pound down a Gatorade in your car and a powerbar as your driving to the local Tuesday night training race. Then you’ll understand what it’s like. I think by doing that, you’ll earn respect a lot sooner from the cycling community. A lot sooner that sitting in a courtroom pointing fingers. Get my drift?
ridin at 4:20™, here’s my challenge to you:
Come to my house at 5803 Pierce St, Pgh, 15232 (but call ahead b/c I both work and go to grad school and wouldn’t want to miss you) and share these opinions of yours with me face-to-face. Or let me know where you live and I’ll head over to your place.
Because until then, you’re a twat hiding behind the anonymity of the internet spewing bile that I doubt you’d have the courage to say in person.
Do I need to knock or will your mom let me in? I’m assuming I head straight to the basement?
If I saw you face to face, I’d have no problem telling you that you are a fucking doper right to your face. The truth, via the internet or in person hurts, uh Joe? I’m assuming you no longer race, even though your suspesion is up. What’t the matter, Joe? Did you realize you cannot do well without cheating?
Joe Papp, Go fuck yourself. You are a pathetic doper. You always will be an embarrassement to anyone who ever owned a bike. You are a fucking cheater and a liar.
Call me an asshole, cocky P.O.S, Just don’t ever call me a liar or cheater.
Enjoy your life Joe. I’m sure after all the dope, you may have a life span just long enough to graduate grad school. Oh, your parents and wife(oops, ex wife) should be so proud.
Nick Price, aka “ridin at 4:20“
# Graduate of Penn State University with a Bachelors of Science degree in Marketing
# Graduate Level MBA Finance Courses at Alvernia College
# RE/MAX International’s 100 % Club 2007
# RE/MAX International’s Executive Club 2006
# RE/MAX International’s 100 % Club 2005
# RE/MAX International’s Presidents Club 2004
# RE/MAX International’s Presidents Club 2003
# Participant in the Olivets Boys and Girls Club “Kiss a Pig” Contest 2004–over $50,000 raised
AREAS OF SPECIALIZATION
# Representing Residential/Commercial Buyers and Sellers with strong emphasis on customer service
# Past President Berkshire Estates Condominium Board of Directors
# Past Board Member for the Reading Berks Association of Realtors Commercial Industrial Council
# Founder/Captain TechnoCycle BRC/Dynaflo Racing amateur cycling team
# As a Berks County native of over 25 years, I can show you the opportunites Berks County has to offer.